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The Ninja Selling Podcast

Jun 28, 2021

Through coaching sessions and recent conversations in the Facebook podcast group, agents overwhelmingly report that the phone is their least favorite aspect of the Ninja System. Today Matt and Garrett look at why this is, and how to become a master of the phone, even if you don’t feel like you’re inherently “good” at it. They point out that the biggest priority is to have your F.O.R.D. conversations (Family, Occupation, Recreation, and Dreams), and talking on the phone is the most efficient way to do so. They share their advice to write a list of people you already talk to regularly, who you’d like to connect with more, and people you never call. If you don’t enjoy talking to certain people, take their name off the list! Instead, focus on the people you connect with, enjoy speaking to, and are interested in, and you’ll soon have a list of people who are easy to call.

Matt and Garrett explain how F.O.R.D. questions help you uncover common interests with clients, and unlock a deeper level of flow and connection with them. They discuss your belief system, and whether you are actively telling yourself you don’t enjoy the phone. Our hosts share their best advice for becoming more comfortable making calls, pushing past the awkward phase until it gets easier, and they address some common complaints they hear about why people don’t like the phone. They talk about using the phone as a tool of connection, taking the path of least resistance, and only calling people you would be interested in spending time with in person. Once you have the right names on your list, all of a sudden you’ll find yourself looking forward to picking up the phone, and excited to lean into this very important step of the Ninja Process.

Join the growing Ninja Selling Podcast group on Facebook at, where you can ask questions, give advice, and connect with other Ninjas. If you have not been accepted to the group yet, please check your messages for a follow-up from Matt. You can also leave a voicemail with your direct feedback at 208 MY-NINJA. 


Episode Highlights:

  • Garrett posted a few questions in the Facebook community: Which system is your favorite? Which do you wish you were doing better? And which is your least favorite?
  • People overwhelmingly reported the phone as their least favorite
  • Today’s episode looks at how to become a master of the phone
  • It’s not a matter of whether you’re good at talking on the phone or not
  • The most important thing is to make sure you’re having F.O.R.D. conversations (Family, Occupation, Recreation, Dreams), and the phone just happens to be the most efficient way to have them - but these can take place in other ways
  • Who you’re calling makes a difference in terms of whether you’re excited to make a call or dreading it
  • Garrett’s advice to write down people’s names - who you are already talking to regularly, who you’d like to talk to more, and people you never call
  • If you don’t enjoy talking to them, take their name off the list
  • Remove yourself of the burden that you need to talk to certain people just because they’re a client
  • Instead focus on calling the people that you connected with, that you enjoy speaking to, and that you’re interested in
  • Asking F.O.R.D. questions helps you uncover common interests and unlock a deeper level of flow with people
  • Some clients are just not as talkative or open to answering questions, and that’s okay
  • This could also be an opportunity to get better at asking the right questions
  • Top producers don’t necessarily have a large core sphere of influence, but they have very active flow with them
  • This creates referrals and keeps the business rolling
  • Talking on the phone may feel awkward or difficult at first, but just like working out, you need to push past that and it will get easier
  • Your belief system can affect how you feel about the phone if you are actively telling yourself it makes you uncomfortable or you are not good at it
  • Take the path of least resistance and call people at times you know you’ll be in better flow with them (e.g., during College Basketball season)
  • People have commented that the “I’m just calling because I was thinking about you” call feels fake
  • If you focus on connecting with people over common interests and build a list of people you enjoy talking to, the calls will become easy
  • Highlight names to categorize who you most enjoy speaking with, who you could call more, and who you’d feel strange calling
  • Focus on the first two groups
  • Re-evaluate this list once a quarter, not as you’re getting ready to sit down for your Hour of Power
  • The phone becomes a tool of connection
  • You don’t have to interject business topics until the client brings it up
  • A good rule of thumb is to only call people you would want to spend time with in person 
  • Keep track of people who reach out to you, and who you would want to speak with even if you weren’t in real estate - this will help you form your core list of names
  • If you have the wrong people on your list, you won’t want to make calls



“It’s probably the number one thing that we get to address when we’re coaching and working with people is: How in the world do you figure out the phone and how do you make it so that you can be a master of the phone?”

“It’s not whether you’re good at talking on the phone or not. I want to take that off the table.”

“If you really break it down, you have the wrong people on your list, if it's causing you that much stress.”

“Start with whoever is in your database or on your list don't want to talk to. Just take them off the list. Start there. If you don't feel like talking to that person, don't call them.”

“If they're not people you're excited about having conversations with, you don't really have much in common, but they trust you as their real estate adviser, great. Just show up as the real estate advisor then. I think that's totally okay.”

“It removes the burden of being like, Well, I guess I'll call… [But] I don't really know what to talk to him about. And I don't have a reason to call, but he's a client so I should call. No - don't force yourself into that situation.”

“You're looking for those little things. As you start to ask more F.O.R.D. questions, dig down, dig deeper - you're looking for the stuff that you have in common, like interests with those people. And when you find common interests, that's the way I'm going to continue flow with that. That's the easiest path.”

“That's those little paths that you look for, that build those relationships… This is how you start to establish a deeper level of flow with people.”

“I want everybody to be comfortable with knowing that it's okay to not be great friends with everybody you do business with.”

“If you're not used to doing that, of course, it's going to be hard to pick up the phone because you feel a little awkward about it. And that's okay, too. We just need to push past that a little bit, just like the first time you start working out. It feels hard, of course. But then it gets easier.”

“I've watched people that have the belief system of like, I don't like talking on the phone. The phone's uncomfortable for me. And you have this core belief.”

“You start to understand those times of, this is a time I can be in better flow with this person, if I choose to. It's an easy phone call right now. At other times, it's not easy. And you take the path that's, again, got the least resistance.”

“The more you have the right people on the list, the more, all of a sudden, the phone calls become really easy.”

“Start with people who you talk to even if you weren't selling real estate. Who would come over to your backyard barbecue, if this wasn't your profession? And that list may be small, and that's okay. We got to get a baseline.”

“Then we build up some confidence. And then the phone becomes this thing we look forward to, because it's a tool of connection. And you learn to love connection as well.”

“You never bring up business unless they bring it up first. It is really just connecting with somebody. And I think that that's a big fear for people, is that they think it's something bigger than that.”



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